Onlinemagazin für Film und Filmmusik

Hello Mr. McKenzie, thank you very much for this interview.

My Pleasure.

Let’s start with your educational background. I learned that you studied composition with some renowned classical composers, Pierre Boulez and Witold Lutoslawski. When did you actually decide not to become a classical composer in your own right, but to go into the film business?

That is a really interesting question. When I was working on my masters and doctors at the University of Southern California, I recognised that I really did not want to teach. I taught there for several years during my masters and doctors and a couple of years after I graduated. But what was always in the back of my mind was the desire to work on films. In part this was because in film you get the chance to write music and here it performed within a week or two after you finished your work. This is an immediate learning process and reward there.

Has this also been a choice of music preferences and style? One might imagine that being a modern classical composer trained by Boulez and Lutoslawski required different musical means than writing for films.

It is very different indeed. In that regard, the other observation I had made in University when I studied this music and complete immersed myself into contemporary art music, that me and my buddies, my fellow students, really did not like each others music. This may sound a bit like a hard judgment, but it’s true. I also found that audiences for the contemporary classical music are so small and that the interest is so little, that the actual expression that was being made was not reaching people. My thought was, that I was not cut out to write music that does not reach people. I wanted to write music that touches people’s emotions and that makes life, in a sense, a better experience for people. So the idea to write purely intellectual music just like my buddies was really quite fascinating in many respects, but was not ultimately rewarding enough for me.

To which degree would you say that your music now is still influenced by your studies?

The beautiful thing about film music is that each movie that comes along requires a kind of different skill set and a different approach. So I’d say that I have a really broad palette, for example I can go in the direction of Lutoslawski if I needed to or the direction of John Adams if I needed to. But I can also go the direction of Tchaikovsky, if that is was the film needs. In the sense of “The Great Miracle” I needed a really romantic score, so I sticked to the works of Mahler, Rachmaninoff and Brahms. So this film allowed me to explore that vocabulary in a very fun and enjoyable way.

Would you say that your stylistic inspirations also come from other film composers? I heard that you mentioned Jerry Goldsmith as a kind an idol for you.

Jerry, along with every composers I’ve worked for and with, has taught me various aspects of music. Every’s personality is quite different and so I absolutely draw from the experiences with Jerry, and with Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri, Marc Shaiman or Bruce Broughton, with whom I began with. All their influence is present.

I often read that your music is melodic, elegant, heartfelt and inspiring and in your album notes for “Dragonheart” you state, that the orchestra continues to be the mightiest expression available to us. If somebody would say that your music was traditional or even old-fashioned, would you feel flattered or misunderstood?

I think I really would not care about that. I have to do what the film needs and of course have my own preferences and desires, a personal approach. So while I respect others wanting to go different directions, I’ve never been somebody who followed trends. So when someone calls my music traditional, he’s probably right. On many levels it really is. But at the same time, you’re talking so somebody who studies with Pierre Boulez, so when I hear certain composers being called unique these days because they’re copying John Adams or they’re copying Jerry Goldsmith or Thomas Newman, I just find myself kind of amused by it. There is nothing new or unique to this to my ears, it’s just a rehashing of some really unique guys. You know, even John Adams was not the first guy who started repeating notes. So we all grow on each other.
Frankly, one of the composers I have the most admiration for is Bach. He was given this same criticism at his time, the reason for this was that he came at the very end of the baroque period. By time he was writing in this style, there already was some early classicism evolving. Mozart was born only six years after Bach died. So Bach was a kind of a master of the baroque tradition in a way that changed the world forever. So Bach was not the most unique composer of his time, still he recognised as one of the most important. As a conclusion I don’t worry about those things.

In a way it is good to hear that somebody sticks to the traditional way of composing for films, with creating moods with the orchestra and develop themes and so on. A lot of modern film music is too much immersed in cheap trends and in the attempt of being the most modern and hip music.

Yes, I also feel that in a way. It comes to be that the approaches of the guys who try to be over-trendy contain less and less music. But in fact it’s the directors, who they are working for, that’s what they want. If I’d work with these directors I’d listen very carefully what their desires were. It’s not that I walk into every movie and expect to be able to write something like “Dragonheart” or “The Great Miracle”. I love working with directors and here what their ideas and desires are. I can write music that contains no melody and uses drum pads and so on, what seems to be a trend right now. I do not find that modern, I just find it anemic.

Which scores of yourself would you recommend to someone who is not familiar with your music? Are there some that represent your style in the best way or that you’re particularly proud of?

I’m actually proud of every single score I’ve composed for different reasons. I always compare this selection with the question, which one of your children you love most. It’s very hard to pick out a score or two that really stand out. But I like also add to this statement, that I’ve noticed two things in composer’s careers: First, they only have the chance to do movies once or twice in their careers that are really opportunities. I mean opportunities to write something special and unique. And second, this will in most of the cases be for a movie that is not a blockbuster. I think of Jerry Goldsmith’s “Rudy” for example. This a beautiful beautiful score, just like “A Patch Of Blue”.
For me, in this sense, there were two films that stood out to be unusual opportunities for me. The first movie was “Blizzard”, where I had the possibility to write music from the beginning of the movie to the end. Also I had a large orchestra and a chorus and really enjoyed to write this engaging family movie adventure score. The second is the most recent movie I’ve made, “The Great Miracle”. This film was really needing some spiritual depth and emotional depth. That’s why they hired me to do the score and the music I featured throughout the entire film. So that’s a unique opportunity of a kind a composer like me just hopes he can get. For this reason at this single moment “The Great Miracle” is probably my most favourite score.

Okay, then let’s talk about this score for some time. How exactly did you get this assignment and what did the director or the producers ask you to contribute?

I got the film trough a friend of a friend. They had hired a composer and he has written a score that was not working. It was a synth-score and I instantly felt that this was not was the movie needed. So when I went to the meeting I heard the prior score and I knew that the composer wrote his heart out. It was a very respectable score, it only lacked the resources of an orchestra. So the first thing I said to the director and the producer was that they should think of imagining the score a lot bigger than before. I asked not only for an orchestra, but for a huge orchestra and a big chorus. Eventually we agreed to use the London Boys Choir Libera, but at first their response was just laughter. They were very surprised and probably found it audacious of me to ask for these resources. But then I waited for about two weeks and then I got a phone call. They told me that they were excited about the idea and decided to spend the money that needed to be spent.
The other thing that I said to them about this particular film is that if you’re going to reach people on a spiritual level, the doorway was to reach them on an emotional level. That in my experience opens up the spirit, when your emotions are engaged in a deep way, you feel a greater sensitivity. So my approach, on which they agreed, was to raise the emotional connection to the characters. The most unusual thing that happened while I was composing this was that they came over and heard every single piece that I wrote. At the end of every piece I recorded, the looked at me and said “Bravo!”. I’ve never had that before. And having said that I must add, that director Bruce Morris had several suggestions along the way that were very helpful. But in general the reception of the director and the producers was so strong, I really must have tapped into what they wanted.

I’d like to address the religious or spiritual elements in the score and the movie a bit more. Can you tell me something more about the film and how you translated it into music?

Well, the film is catholic-themed, so on some level you have to say that it is “religious”. But I connect with the film and the music more on a spiritual level, in a more universal way. All of these themes, such as redemption or hope or love, are universal themes in my understanding. There is nothing sectarian about love, nothing sectarian about hope or even about faith. We express our faith in many different ways and fashions, but the idea of having faith is a very universal idea. So the score must, ideally, reach out for these universal themes no matter what particular religion you come from. The important thing is that you’re able to relate to them through your emotion.

How exactly do you translate the universal themes or abstract feelings and emotions into music?

That is the great mystery. It’s extremely difficult to try to decide, where ideas come from or why you chose one note over another note. It’s just like I’m having this discussion with you, my words appear spontaneously. I do not have to think about what exactly I’m going to say. It’s the same with the music. When I look at the movie and see what is needed, my fingers move in a special way. Of course, I recraft things again and again, but generally speaking this process is just a mystery.

But would you say that your use of a symphony orchestra with a boys chorus and solo voices was motivated by the spiritual perspective you chose?

Yes, most certainly. There is no doubt about the fact that choir and orchestra together are the greatest expressions that I can think of, and especially a choir takes music to a whole different level, in my opinion. That’s why the Missa Solemnis by Beethoven is probably one of my favourite pieces of all time and it has such an impact in general. Or take the Finale of the Ninth Symphony by Beethoven, because of the choral ingredient this piece is clearly one or two notches higher than anything else on an emotional level.
So I really respond to the voice in classical music and especially the pure quality of a boys choir moves me. I love the music of Libera and the quality of singing that Robert Prizeman gets is just splendid, perfectly blended and musical.

“The Great Miracle” also is an animated movie. Did this aspect alter your approach or did the 3D-Technique even trigger your inspiration?

In all honesty 3D is one of these new technologies that I still not have fallen in love with. I’m much more interested in a clear, colourful and beautifully animated film, unless there is some special three-dimensional activity happening. So the 3D part of “The Great Miracle” did not really affect me and the animated elements in the film were secondary to me too. My primary objective was the story. The director Bruce Morris, who worked on Disney films like “Pocahontas”, always pointed out, that it’s the story that is important. So the fact that it just happened to be animated did not significantly altered my score, it would have been the same it the film were not animated.

A suite from “The Great Miracle” was performed in Madrid in mid-August this year. Were you able to be there? What are your feelings about that?

That is a very interesting story. Roque Banos conducted the music that I had written and it happened actually because I have given an interview for a film music website. I was just asked the question whether I would ever like to have the music from “The Great Miracle” performed and I said, of course I would love to have it performed maybe in Los Angeles or in Spain. And the reason I mentioned Spain was that I feel that the Spanish community is very emotional and engaged. And they are also very spiritual and catholic. But I just took that idea out of my head without a plan. So when the opportunity popped into my office to really get it performed in Spain I was surprised. I thought, wow I just hoped that something like might happen and now it’s happening. But I feel it was a great honour to have music performed during the celebration of the World Youth Day and conducted by Roque Banos. Although I was not able to be there I heard the performance and was very enthralled. Roque did an incredible job of performing it. It was absolutely in tune and the dynamics and the tempos were perfect. The ensemble sounded terrific.

I often hear from composers that they feel that their music comes back to life when it’s performed live and not only once for the soundtrack.

I agree with that, it is a really rewarding experience. I hope that this particular suite will be picked up by orchestras all over the world. That is a dream I have and I’m totally in agreement about the statement you made.

I’d like to speak about your orchestration work for a second finally. How does this work that you’ve done for great composers like Jerry Goldsmith differ from your composition works? Is it equally rewarding and how do you deal with the creative input by the composer?

Every composer is so different in the way that they craft music or the extent they indicate details. So when I’m working with composers as an orchestrator I’m always thinking about what I would do compositionally and if there are ideas that I have that might enhance the music from a compositional element. That means adding harmony, rhythm, melody or countermelody. I tend to enjoy adding elements that would take music to a higher level and hopefully help the composer. We are all under such extremely deadlines that another take by an orchestrator can really enhance the music. I’ll quickly add a big “but” to this statement, because if the composer is really someone who thinks completely, which Jerry did for example, than it is a different case. I’m just watching his back in this case. I’m correcting errors that I might find and look for things that Jerry must have meant differently than the way he wrote them. In these cases I called him and ask what he thinks about doing this instead of that. And we had a little discussion about it and sometimes he said go for it and then there were times when he was not so excited about it. I think that’s what collaboration actually is.

That supports the idea of orchestration as an issue of communication as opposed to composing, which much more deals with the emotions and ideas coming from the inside.

Yes, that is absolutely right.

You mentioned opportunities for a composer some minutes ago. For the last question I’d like to ask whether there are any opportunities or dream projects that you not yet had and that you wish for your ongoing career?

I orchestrated some portions of the music to “Dances with Wolves” by John Barry. That was kind of a life-changing experience for me. That calibre of a film is the kind of movie that I think my music would lend itself to, this sort of epic, emotional and beautiful film. I’ve not yet had been offered this kind of film, so that is a dream for me. If I have to wait until I’m an old man to be able to do it I’d be happy to continue to grow as an artist and hope that this opportunity comes.

Great! Thank you very much and best wishes for your dreams.

Thank you too, Jan. It was a great pleasure. And I also want to say thanks to all the guys that are so supportive of my music. We, all the composers and orchestrators as a community, really appreciate the passion that you guys have. 

Jan Zwilling / 12.09.11